Except for the mountain of evil, violent, underhanded and illegal stuff Russia keeps getting caught doing, and has so far escaped scot-free due to Western cowardice?
No, they were suggesting attacking it based on speculation about this specific event, so yes out of thin air.
I agree that Russia is evil, but saying that it got away with it Scot free is just insane. In fact it even plays into Russian propaganda, to say that nothing really harmed them even after the past 3 years of international sanctions and consequences.
And western cowardice? Apart from nuclear war (which I'm glad people are being "cowardly" about), what do you suggest? It's also funny when war mongers online talk about cowardice. Why dont you go volunteer in Ukraine if you're such a non coward?
> It's also funny when war mongers online talk about cowardice
> Why dont you go volunteer in Ukraine if you're such a non coward?
This is an impressive feat. You've managed to package not one -- not two -- but THREE Russian propaganda talking points into a single paragraph. I believe I've just witnessed the second coming of Alexander Pushkin.
And you've managed to pull the typical online war mongers deflection of calling me a Russian shill. Let's say you're right, I'm a complete Russian shill (nevermind that I completely abhor the Russian regime since their intervention in Syria, and think that Putin belongs to the Hague tribunal).
Are you going to actually dismiss the fact that yes, nuclear war would be a very likely possibility if we declared war against Russia? Much more likely than... Not doing that?
Or are you going to use the Reddit argument that somehow, it just won't happen because trust me bro, and only Russian shill would care about getting nuclear bombed?
And yes, it's cowardly to call people cowards because they won't push for a war that you yourself won't fight. I didn't bring up cowardice first by the way, but I guess it's fine to do it when you agree with the person lol.
I'm not. But you are the one going around accusing people of being Russian shills, I hope your little red scare gets better and you move on from Redditor style arguments :)
The thread I answered in had someone playing dumb as if there would be no reason whatsoever to consider Russia a hostile actor, I was responding to that.
That's not what you said though. And it's still a baseless accusation. It's similar to accusing Israel or the US of every single coup d'état or sabotage action just because they have a huge history of doing that. In both cases it's completely baseless unless there's evidence.
That's exactly what I said - Russia is a hostile actor that has given plenty of reasons for war, regardless if they're involved in this, which neither me nor anyone else knows.
War by who? Who do you think should declare war on Russia? And as another comment said, are you volunteering? You can even wage war against Russia now if you want to, volunteers in Ukraine are always welcome.
By the international community of course. The same one that has heavily sanctioned Russia.
> And as another comment said, are you volunteering? You can even wage war against Russia now if you want to, volunteers in Ukraine are always welcome.
That's just a cheap deflection. Me dying in the trenches won't change anything; a coordinated properly aggressive response might teach the war criminals at the Kremlin that they will not be let off. It's just a repeat of Munich/Ethiopia, and no individual at our level can do anything about it but advocate for change in policy to our governments.
It's not a cheap deflection. You want other people to die in the trenches or worse, to die in a nuclear war. The deflection is to say that "your life won't change anything", which I mean sure yes, but that's what every single war mongers that doesn't want to fight the wars that they promote say. If everyone said that, no one would be fighting against Russia right now.
And it's funny to say that it's a repeat of Munich / Ethiopia. Again, war mongers will always prefer comparing to the few times where war was the only solution. The only issue is that not only do both situations have nothing in common (not that anyone cared about Ethiopia, since European colonialism in Africa was nothing new), but it also erases the fact that we are talking about nuclear powers here. If Hitler had nuclear weapons pointed at London and New York back in 1938, then obviously the equation wouldn't be as simple as "stop him now" even with hindsight lol.
> You want other people to die in the trenches or worse, to die in a nuclear war
Other people are dying, and more people will until the aggressor is stop. The aggressor has shown loud and clear he has no intention of stopping.
> Again, war mongers will always prefer comparing to the few times where war was the only solution
Because the situation is comparable. Putin has clear and overt ambitions for further expansion (one of his minions already published the plans with Moldova next). If he isn't stopped, like he wasn't in Georgia and Crimea, he'll just continue. So the comparison is very apt.
Yes, nuclear weapons add a serious nee dimension to the problem. That doesn't mean we should let Putin get away with war crimes.
It is quite common to see bad geopolitical actors paying people to go online and accuse Westerners of being "Warmongers" or telling people who object to Putin's wars of imperialist aggression to "go and enlist and fight" with the subtext that the audience are weak and decadent Westerners with no stomach to fight a literal Mafiya-run fascist dictatorship.
Speaking strictly for myself, given that I want to avoid having people think I'm apologising for the Putin regime, I do not ever use these arguments in good faith.
Nope, that's not what I said. I'm a westerner, and it's not about "good faith". It has nothing to do with behind decadent or lazy.
It's because the modus operandi of war mongers, since before world war 1 has always been to agitate for wars that they don't want to fight for themselves. We are talking about nuclear war here, the bad faith argument is to imply that being against it is a sign of being a paid Russian shill. I guess the Pentagon is full of said shills, since they have never even hinted towards a direct war against Russia, or wanted to get directly (by means of troops on the ground) involved in one.
Now I agree that sometimes it's simply not realistic to go all "well do it yourself then". But in this case, Ukraine accepts, trains and equips volunteers. It's not a hypothetical.
