Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

This is definitely a good example of how with the right conditions a quality journal can be run incredibly cheaply (on the order of < $10 per published article). And it looks like JMLR has a better impact factor (in the 2.4 range) than the Springer journal (IF ~1.8) that the editorial board resigned from [1]. So they're obviously doing it incredibly cheaper, with good results. I don't think you can extrapolate from this that the same model can be applied to every field (as the author acknowledges), but it's certainly a good example to try to emulate. Another would be Discrete Analysis [2] for an example in Mathematics (also a field well-suited for efficient publishing).

I know this submission comes on the heels of the discussion of scholarly publishing on HN a day or two ago [3]. It's certainly a good counterpoint to my previous argument that you can't run a journal super cheaply, although I'd argue that one or two cases in one or two fields don't prove you can scale such a system to work for all of academia. But it certainly shows that it's possible to do at a small scale, and maybe there's someone clever enough to figure out how to scale it up.

[1] http://www.springer.com/computer/ai/journal/10994 [2] http://discreteanalysisjournal.com/ [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15265507




There's also the journal Quantum for research in quantum science: https://quantum-journal.org


Discussion about APC pricing would be a lot more fruitful if there was some honest and open discussion about how laborious the publication and it's different work phases actually are. As I said, and as you verified, in the previous thread, no publisher wants to give any breakdown of the costs. This post on JMLR is one of the few where an outsider can actually get some kind of grasp of what it actually takes to publish a journal, and as seen, it isn't that much.

If the actual cost structure was better known, it would be a lot easier to evaluate if the price level is reasonable. Also, it would give a push towards "unbundling" most of the APC. Eg, the author could do the typesetting themselves (as in JMLR) or buy it from somewhere else for cheaper, and thus save grant money that could be used to pay at least something to a grad student or a postdoc currently working for free instead of, as I cynically assume, line up pockets of rich investors and overpaid execs.

I find it a very odd claim that somehow doing publishing at large scale should be MORE expensive than doing it on small scale. My hypothesis is that it's not the production costs, but that at the moment academic publication is so ridden with network effects that publishers can ask for greatly inflated prices to make huge profits and/or be done very inefficiently. It's also such a good business that journals/smaller publishers tend to get bought out or at least invested into by larger companies (most of this was actually done in past couple of decades), who of course have an interest to keep the profit margins as high as possible. And this can happen quite naturally even without full monopoly or cartel, although I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of "common understanding" among the big publishers that price wars aren't good for any of them. Also, it's one of those businesses where almost nobody actually pays anything from their own pocket directly, which generally isn't very good for price competition.

But in the end, I find most of this discussion sort of moot. I quite strongly believe, and can't seem to get any evidence to the contrary, that the actual labor going into the publishing is so low that the industry in it current form shouldn't be, and hopefully won't be, sustainable given the current, let alone future, technology. But OTOH, even if I'm correct, they have huge lobbying budgets, democracy is in such a sorry state and people are so indoctrinated to be selfish, short sighted greedy creatures, I wouldn't be too surprised that the industry can keep the racket going for decades.


Here's a good article on why it's hard to calculate per-article costs: http://cameronneylon.net/blog/pushing-costs-upstream-and-ris...

But yes, prices are not a reflection of cost, but of how much publishers can ask. Unfortunately, given that publishers sell subscriptions in bulk ("Big Deals"), there's no downwards price pressure: if they add another journal to the deal, they can ask more money, without that leading to libraries cutting subscriptions elsewhere. There's no real pressure for APCs as well: authors want to publish in "reputable" journals, and don't pay the APCs themselves, so publishers are free to raise them quite considerably.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: